Bosnia and Herzegovina: International Specialist
/- How do Karadzic and Mladic feel about the United Nations?
- From the perspective of Karadzic and Mladic, what was the purpose of these interviews? Who was the intended audience? What specific details were included and why? Who did they claim was to blame for the problems?
Interview with Radovan Karadzic, 12 July 1995
Journalist in the studio: The guest of the news is the President of Republika Srpska, Dr. Radovan Karadzic. The Serb side guarantees full safety to all of those who are located in the Potocari reception camp, as well as to the members of the Muslim armed formations on condition that they surrender their weapons and themselves. Mr. President, what is the latest situation in Srebrenica?
Radovan Karadzic: You are right in saying that Srebrenica is top news but it should be. And as such, it’s a complete example of the superiority of both the Serb weapons and the Serb Army, and at the same time an example of Serb generosity. Namely, UNPROFOR is present there all the time and we are giving it the possibility, if it deems necessary, to protect those civilians, to have the complete introduction… insight into what’s going on. Not one civilian has been hurt, since the combat activities ceased. There is absolute peace and order.
Our army is enabling the establishing of our civil authorities there because the Serbs were exiled from Srebrenica at the beginning of the war. Those Serbs are coming back now, from the neighbouring villages. There are already existing organs there, elected organs of the Municipal Assembly, the Serb organs. And there is now, as affairs settle down, an activity of the refugees who want to leave. In fact, the majority, the vast majority of these refugees declared that they wished to go to Tuzla.
It is probable that some of them would declare that they want to go to Abdic. And we are completely willing to satisfy their wish, as we have signed an agreement which states that each citizen has the right to freely choose their place of residence, although we think that they do not need to go and they should not go. But one thing is certain: that place will never again be a terrorist stronghold of, as you said yourself before. Not a single armed man can ever be there again, except for the police. If they want to accept the authorities of Republika Srpska, and become its citizens, then they don’t have to go. However, it turns out that the overwhelming majority wishes to go and they are mainly going to Tuzla.
Journalist: Now I suggest that we watch the footage brought to us by the Serb Television crew from Srebrenica.
Reporter: After great provocations and strong Muslim attacks here from Srebrenica, the members of the VRS (Republika Srpska Army) were forced to free this town. A crowd of civilians here are surrendering to the VRS, but the Muslim soldiers are in a panicked flight in the surrounding hills. So, that the operation of the liberation of Srebrenica is still ongoing.
Journalist: On the other hand, the world media is manipulating with the difficult humanitarian situation in Srebrenica. Mr. President, what information do you have on the humanitarian situation in this town?
Karadzic: First of all, it was never difficult because they would always present sixty thousand inhabitants. They would inflate the figures two to three times and in return receive great quantities of food, which they gave to their army, while it was fighting against us. This was a source of frequent tension between our army, UNPROFOR and UNHCR because we knew that this food was being misused.
Secondly, our commissariat [military department for the supply of food and equipment] for refugees, as you can see, rushed in to help. Everyone can see that these people look well fed and that there are no problems, at all. If you compared what happened in Western Slavonia, where the Croatians were allegedly liberating, with what has happened in Srebrenica, where the Serbs are doing the liberating, there is such a difference that it is impossible to talk about war at all. Here, the inhabitants are being simply taken care of and, of course, if they want to stay they may. The humanitarian situation is being kept under control by our authorities, and we will certainly not allow the civilians there to suffer or bear any hardship, because we will share what we have with them. Because they are the people. They could have decided to be our citizens and, to put it simply, Muslim civilians were never our enemy and adversary. We were not fighting against them. And the same will happen this time.
Journalist: Muslim officials Izetbegovic and Silajdzic seemed confused today. They are blaming the United Nations and Yasushi Akashi as the personification of the United Nations’ indecisiveness, requesting that the United Nations and NATO return to Srebrenica the status of safe haven. [...]
Karadzic: Well, only we can return to Srebrenica the status of safe haven. It will only now be a safe haven because all those remaining in Srebrenica, as well as those who return – the Serbs, that is - will be safe. Up to now, no one was safe. According to the international law of war, a safe haven is an area on which two armies, two conflicting sides, come to an agreement, draw its borders and sign pledges that there will be no soldiers or arms there, that there will be civilians there who will enjoy the protection of both parties. That was not the case. None of the safe havens was demilitarised.
[Former Secretary-General] Mr. Ghali himself has said that the safe havens were military strongholds for supporting operations against the Serb territories and the Serb people and this had to stop. This must stop in Bihac and in Tuzla, in Srebrenica and Zepa, in Gorazde and Sarajevo. All six zones have to stop acting as buffers for attacks on Serb territories, the burning of Serb village and killing of Serb civilians. No one can force us into returning to Srebrenica the kind of status it had while it was a stronghold of the Muslim Army. This is out of the question.
This is a war and we are one of the parties to the war. The United Nations must not under any circumstances become one of the parties to the conflict. If they did become a party to the conflict, that would be an open act of war against the Serbs and we would have to defend ourselves. I would also like to remind the entire international community of a particular hypocrisy: whenever, Muslim forces from these safe havens advance through the Serb territory, from Bihac, Tuzla, Sarajevo, and even from Gorazde, the whole world applauds, but when the Serbs undertake counter-offensives and neutralise their opponents, then the world starts to wail and mourn over the losses. You can see that the Muslim civilians haven’t lost anything, but the Muslim Army has.
The message I would pass on to the International Community is to hurry up with the conference because the longer the war continues, the less flexible the Serbs will be. We were most flexible at the Lisbon Conference prior to the war. Every new day of war makes it harder for us to return any of the territory, and the factual state of affairs will indeed play a crucial role here.
Accordingly, it would be better if they hurried up with the conference, removed the sanctions on Yugoslavia and brought us to the negotiating table under identical conditions and resolved the crisis, instead of becoming actively involved against the Serb Army and the Serb people and Republika Srpska in political games. They exclusively helped the Muslims. And the Muslims are ungrateful. If it hadn’t been for UNPROFOR, they would have been defeated a long time ago. Even though it may sound paradoxical, UNPROFOR’s presence prolonged the war. If UNPROFOR was not present here, the Serbs would have brought this war to an end. And I am afraid that this war will only end with a complete Serb victory, although we wanted to separate from them, rather than defeat and incorporate them in our state. In the final analysis, Bosnia once belonged to the Serbs and it may happen that it will return, in its entirety, to Yugoslavia.
Interview with Ratko Mladic, September 1995
Thomson (voiceover): Inside, General Ratko Mladic, wanted for war crimes outside Bosnian Serbia, lionized [given public attention and approval] as its military savior within it. So was he surprised by the scale of NATO’s unprecedented attacks?
Mladic: I am surprised by the brutality of the NATO forces and the Rapid Reaction force because the crime they have committed against Serbian people in the four day attack on different targets in the Republika Srpska had never been equaled, even during the Second World War.
Hitler bombarded Belgrade on 6th April 1941. But on the 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th, he paused. He did not bombard again so the people could be pulled out of demolished houses, the wounded tended and the dead buried according to Christian tradition.
Thomson (voiceover): And yet, when I asked if that meant he’d pull back all his heavy weapons from Sarajevo as the UN demands, General Mladic said it was unfair and unrealistic.
Mladic: It’s not logical to leave our people, about 120,000 Serbs, unprotected in Sarajevo. In and around Sarajevo, there are 55,000 armed Muslims and Croats.
Thomson (voiceover): General Mladic said the Serbs were not responsible for the mortar attacks that led to the series of NATO airstrikes in recent days. He said NATO action after this massacre was out of all proportion and not simply directed at military targets.
Mladic: We have proof that the shell was not fired from our side. In my talks with [Head of UNPROFOR] General Janvier, I told him that they have been bombarding some targets in heavily populated areas. In Republika Srpska, some were hit by air strikes with 1,000, 1,500 or even 2,000 kilos of high explosive. One of those bombs was even directed at a densely populated area in the region of Rogatica and it killed 10 people. A bomb of that size is one to two thousand times more destructive that the 120mm shell that was fired on Sarajevo.
Thomson (voiceover): But NATO action is far from the only pressure on the general. After his forces took the Srebrenica enclave, causing another exodus of mainly Muslim refugees, Mladic himself was sought by the international court for war crimes.
Thomson (during interview): After Srebrenica, you have been indicted for war crimes by the international community. What really went on there?
Mladic: Everything about Srebrenica happened in front of the eyes of the international audience and the international community. During all that time, a UN commander was present, a Dutch colonel whose name I can’t remember. In the camp at Potocari, there were also members of international organizations. As far as I can remember, MSF–Medecins Sans Fronteres [Doctors Without Borders] and I think, the Red Cross–were there too. They can blame me as much as they like. That’s their right. But what the world is supposed to accept is the truth.
I am a man of my people and I, together with my people, fight for our ancient homeland–to defend them not only from the Muslim-Croat Federation, but in this case also from NATO-backed Rapid Reaction Force, and unfortunately from some individual members of UNPROFOR. They are supposed to be here as forces of peace and not of war as they have become. [...]
Thomson (voiceover): As he left, he told me that NATO and the Americans can bomb all they like. But he said, “We’re like the Vietnamese. If any UN or NATO infantry arrive,” he said, “we’ll send them back in body bags.”
Source:
“Interviews with Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic (1995).” Woven Teaching. YouTube. Video, 11:51. https://youtu.be/iy7OqhZEwLs. This video has been edited for use in the classroom. Original videos:- Interview with Radovan Karadzic. 12 July 1995. http://srebrenica.sensecentar.org/en.
- “Meeting Mladic: Alex Thomson’s 1995 encounter.” Channel 4 News. 26 May 2011. https://www.channel4.com/news/alex-thomson-meets-general-mladic-in-1995.